发信人: lockey()
整理人: doghouse(2003-06-22 10:51:21), 站内信件
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看看泰国那边的评论也挺有意思的， 我尽量把大意写出来给看不清楚的朋友看看，或许有些收获。
不正确的地方请各位原谅，原文是shiva兄转过来的
Sept. 23 in south china , Kungfu vs. muaythai resulted 5:2
Detail : all kungfu fighter are champions .all muay thai fithers are also champions.
the result is 5:2 .china won.
muay thai players should take a serious thinking about that .
muay thai meets a opponent this world
Post by : Younger [Tue. 25 Sep. 2001 - 07:24:26 GMT.]
Answer : BOLLOCKS.WHAT A PILE OF BULLSHIT.
Post by : MICK [Tue. 25 Sep. 2001 - 07:46:10 GMT.]
Answer : mr. mick. pls give your serious opinion.
human being use language .
animal use uhmmm uhmmm way.
okay?
Post by : younger [Tue. 25 Sep. 2001 - 09:22:11 GMT.]
Answer : yes sanda wins again
5:2
again
it just shows that sanda is just as afective than muay thai , plus you shouldn't always doubt the
chinese sanda fighters
说上面那人不应该老是说中国散打选手的不是。
Post by : michael [Tue. 25 Sep. 2001 - 12:50:02 GMT.]
Answer : DEAR YOUNGER:
FIRST OF ALL THE BELOW MENTIONED POINTS HAVE TO BE ANSWERED, THEN WE CAN MAKE COMMON COMMENTS:
提出一些问题给大家讨论一下
-WHERE THE OPPONENTS EQUAL IN QUALITY AND EXPERIENCE?
I MEAN WHO WERE THE COMPETITORS...IF AGAINST A 10 YEARS EXPERIENCE SAN SHOU FIGHTER (I THINK ALSO
THAT TODAY'S SAN SHOU IS NOT SO OLD) A POOR 2 YEAR MT EXPERIENCED FIGHTER OR THE OPPOSITE, IT
WILL BE UNFAIR...
对抗在经验和质量上是否平等？
-IN ORDER TO BE FAIR IN MAKING SUCH COMMENTS, THE BEST SHOULD CHALLENGE EACHOTHER...MAY BE
AGAINST "RAMON DECKER" AGAINST ONE OF SAN SHOU CHAMPS FROM CHINA OR WHATSEVER...THEN YOU CAN MAKE
JUDGEMENTS...
大意是如果谁要给出评论的话，那他应该对中泰搏击术都应该有一定的经历。
HOWEVER, IF YOU WOULD ASK MY COMMENT, NONE OF THESE SAN SHOU FIGHTERS WOULD HAVE ANY CHANCE, THEY
KNOW THIS ALSO WELL...(IN THE MEANTIME, I AM 42 YEARS OLD AND INVOLVED IN MARTIAL ARTS
INTENSIVELY, I NEVER SAW ANY CHINESE STYLIST TO FIGHT WITH TODAY'S SAN SHOU TECHNICS (I.E.TO USE
LOW KICKS, CLINCHES,ETC), BUT TODAY THEY ARE ALL USING TECHNICS OF A HYBRID STYLE AND IF THEY
CALL IT AS A UNIQUE TRADITIONAL FIGHT SYSTEM , I HAVE OF COURSE TO ARGUE...
如果你们要问我的看法， 我的看法是，那些散手没有任何机会胜利，他们自己也知道（我已经42岁了，并且
很深入的了解武术，我从来没有见过中国武术像今天这种打法（..举例），但是今天他们全都用了xx, 如果
他们称这些为独一无二的传统搏击的话，我肯定会不同意的。
HOWEVER, YOU SHOULD OF COURSE CALCULATE THAT MUAY THAI IS ALSO NOT STAYING CONSTANT, IT MODIFIES
MANY THINGS FROM OTHER STYLES, BUT AT LEAST THIS SYSTEM HAS IT'S OWN TRADITIONAL TECHNICS AND
TACTICS TO WHICH MOST EMPHESIZE IS GIVEN... BUT IN SANSHOU, THERE ISN'T ANY TRADITIONAL SIDE FROM
ANY OF CHINESE STYLES(THERE ISN'T ANY SIMILIARITY IN TRAINING METHODS,TECHNICS WITH CHINESE
ORIGIN, ONLY THE NAME IS CHINESE...)
你们肯定也会说泰拳也改进了不少，它也参考了许多其他搏击术。但是我认为泰拳重点还是在于自己传统的技
术和战术， 散手，没有任何传统的东西，只有名字是中国的。
I ASK ALSO ANOTHER QUESTION:
另外一些问题。
"WHERE ARE THE CHAMPS ORIGINATED FROM SAN SHOU IN K-1 FIGHTS(THERE IS GOOD AWARD WAITING FOR
THEM...)? THERE ARE MANY FIGHTERS FROM "MUAY THAI","KICK BOXING" AND AT LEAST FROM KARATE WORLD
,AS WELL...AREN'T THERE ANY? (PLEASE DO NOT ARGUE THAT THEY ARE NOT INVITED...)
为什么散手k-1比赛中的冠军没有出场（难道有更加好的报酬等着他们？）
.............................
Post by : [email protected] [Tue. 25 Sep. 2001 - 14:27:05 GMT.]
Answer : Those excuses of [email protected] are much or less the same excuses that kung-fu
people used after those 5 kung-fu fighters from Hong Kong lost against the Thai fighjters in
1974....
Post by : SCC [Tue. 25 Sep. 2001 - 14:44:36 GMT.]
Answer : as i have said once a year the world kung fu champs and karate/kickboxing champs get in
the ring with thai boxers in the uk ever year the thai boxers win end of.if the fight was fixed
in china then the chinks would get crap thai boxers to fight the kung fu bods so the kung fu bods
would win.sly gooks.
每年的中国功夫冠军 和空手道，台拳道冠军 都会在美国和泰拳手较量，而每次都是泰拳胜利。如果这种比赛
在中国举行，中国的家伙肯定又会耍花招使泰拳落败得。 (@#$@#$@#$@#%！！！！！）
Post by : mick [Tue. 25 Sep. 2001 - 15:27:36 GMT.]
Answer : mick,mick,mick
dont you know there are lots of gooks and chinks on this board that wont be able to get your
sense of humor.silly cracker:)
muaythai#1
Post by : yenski [Tue. 25 Sep. 2001 - 17:08:03 GMT.]
Answer : [email protected] :
"WHERE ARE THE CHAMPS ORIGINATED FROM SAN SHOU IN K-1 FIGHTS(THERE IS GOOD AWARD WAITING FOR
THEM...)?"
回答为什么中国在k-1比赛中的冠军没有出场
1. So far I haven't seen them fight under anyone elses rules but their own.
我从来没有见过他们在别人的规则下比赛。
2.They can't elect their own judges.
他们不能选举自己的裁判。
3.They can't add bonus rounds.
他们不能加额外的回合。
4. They can't lie about the background of the Muay Thai fighters(i.e. Joseph geri was anounced as
a Lumpini champion but he never fought in Thailand and that was his 5th fight of his life) This
was done so that if they had won they could say that they defeated a Lumpini Champion.
。。。。。。。。。。。。。。
joseph geri 声称是冠军 但是他从来没有在泰国打过，这是他出世以来的第5次比赛。
Post by : Dreadsen [Tue. 25 Sep. 2001 - 17:23:58 GMT.]
Answer : Face it muay Thai balls are bigger
then Sanshou balls. Sanshou wont fight
in anyone else's rules or style because
fear of loseing. Chinese have to much pride
lets take it too Bankok.
中国散手不肯在别人的规则下打是因为怕输。
Post by : ------------- [Tue. 25 Sep. 2001 - 20:37:05 GMT.]
Answer : I have to say fair enough, the MT fighters lost over there, yeah. But if it was to be a
true MT vs Kung fu battle, they should have allowed the use of elbows, and knees to the head.
After all, the KF fighters were allowed to use there throws whish turned out to be a big
adavantage from what i hear... This fight show has turned out to be very bad for the sport of MT
as most web boards are now talking about this show and how badly the mt fighters performed, and
how strong the chineses fighters were. Which just isn't true.
我必须说这次比赛已经是够公平的了！泰拳输了，但是这如果是一场真正的泰拳对中国功夫，他们不应该允许
用肘，用膝盖攻击头部。 然后，功夫选手被允许用摔，这是一个非常大的优势。这场比赛结果泰方表现的很差
，所有的网页留言都在讨论这场比赛中泰拳很差，中方多么厉害。这些我认为都不是正确的。
Post by : concerned [Tue. 25 Sep. 2001 - 23:10:07 GMT.]
Answer : Totally agree about the rules out and out favouring San Shou fighters. Consider the
following:
分析规则对中方的优势，我就不翻译了。
- checking techniques results in points awarded to San Shou fighters
(HUH - since when did defending yourself result in points awarded to the other guy?)
- double points for throws (favours San Shou)
- no elbows (favours San Shou)
- bullshit fight records - Lumpinee champion after four fights, yeah right (favours Sam Shou)
- no knees to the head (favours San Shou)
- no enforcement of ten second count out rule (favours San Shou)
- Chinese officials, no independent judges (favours San Shou)
What a crock. I dont know why MT guys are even fighting under these rules. A good analogy would
be putting
a racehorse against a donkey over a quarter mile. Cut the racehorse' legs off, start him a mile
behind the donkey
and then when the donkey wins say how much faster donkeys are then racehorses!
Post by : Piranha [Wed. 26 Sep. 2001 - 02:28:19 GMT.]
Answer : sanshou and muay thai show different ideas for fighting.
泰拳比赛像石头的撞击，较软的那个会被打败。
散打比赛像水和水的冲击，柔韧的将会取胜。
muay thai match likes stone vs stone collide, the soft stone will be defeated.
sanshou match likes water vs water crush, the flexible water will win.
但是当石头去撞击水的时候，情况会怎样呢〉？
but what will happen when stone hit water?
虽然石头比水强壮，但是我们从来都没看过石头把水撞倒，通常却是被水淹没了。(有点见地)
although stone is stronger and much more stiff than water ,man can't see stone hit water down,
oftenly stone will be sunk after stone hit water.
我们看了这两场比赛，我们可以发现一些现象（就是说中方跑动的快，利用直线侧踹阻击泰拳）
泰方没有办法取得点数，如果这是真正的战斗的话，泰拳将永远不能打倒散打，就像石头不能打倒水一样。
we watch the two match muay thai vs. sanshou, we are able to find the phenomena as bellow:
1\muay thai player march with low kick ,sanshou use straight line kick to block muay thai's march
or flee back to avoid muay thai's low kick beating_____muay thai was unable to win points. using
this way ,if it were real fight , muay thai can not hit down sanshou just like stone can not hit
down water.
散打选手抓住泰方的腿，用摔把泰方放倒，如果这时真正的战斗，散手有能力在地上把泰方重创的。
2\when possible sanshou player grasp muay thai player's leg, they used wrestling and throwing to
make muay thai player laid down_____if it were real fight, sanshou fighter is able to hurt muay
thai player on the ground.
当泰拳用膝攻击，散手用肘保护或者用摔使泰拳失去重心，那样泰拳怎么才能用强大的膝和肘
来攻击呢？据我所知道的，泰方说要以7:0战胜对手，他们怎么会说出这种话来，因为他们相信他们
得攻击力，特别是肘和膝。事实上的确有成绩，有两个中国的被ko了，但是大多数的中国选手都
能逃过泰拳强大的肘和膝。
3\when muay thai player use knee attack , sanshou use elbow to protect themself or use wrestling
to make muay thai player lose their center of gravity and laid them down to the ground.____if
muay thai player lose center of gravity ,how could they use their stiff knee and elbow to hurt
opponent?(as we know , muay thai team wanted to get a result of 7:0 to win chinese,what they made
such a judgement?because muay thai team believe in their stiff attack power, especially knee and
elbow. in fact they realised part of their goals , 2 chinese was KO, but most of chinese survived
under muay thai 's attack of stiff knee and elbow.)
我真正的看法是怎样？
我只是想让我们这些习武的人知道：我们应该努力的用谨慎和虚心的态度，去学习不同搏击术的长处。
我相信泰拳搏击是极好的，我也相信散手有很多值得我们学习的地方。
这两场比赛是所有练习者非常好的教材，不是为了输赢，而是为了两个国家，两个文化的交流。
（鼓掌！！！）
what 's my real opinion?
i just want to make us ---all martial arts practiser----know:we should study harder with prudent
and modest attitude, to learn advantage from different martial art styles .
I do believe muay thai techique is excellent , I also do believe sanshou contains good ideas for
fighting which is worthy of being studied by other martial arts practisers involving muay thai
practiser.
the two matchs are good things for all practisers, not for win or lost , but for comunication
between two countries ,two cultres.
Post by : Younger [Wed. 26 Sep. 2001 - 02:54:21 GMT.]
Answer : The 2 countries must have already discussed and changed conditions before they plan the
rule, audience may not look into the terms.
Of cause all MT fighter were upset with the result. But throwing is really can kill.
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